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Post by TwistovF8 on Mar 30, 2009 18:25:56 GMT -5
Hey guys, I see we have a real AHO problem here. Just for the heck of it, I voted too. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but here it goes. There will be no league option of turning off AHO's manually in any tournament in season I of the WiiGA. If EA decides not to fix the problem, there will still be no official games with the manual disabling of the AHO option in season I or any other season in the new league as long as I am an admin. I am convinced I can get a majority vote for that not to happen. It did not work out in the previous season. We tried it. I wish it did. I really liked it. It did not. We voted to remove it for season III and we discussed it for the new league. We had to weigh the pros and cons of making this part of the league. For now unless EA is willing to adjust it's servers, there will be no manual disabling of AHO's for official league play. Sorry Then why not say this as soon as the poll was put up? I think it is too bad that AHO OFF is being lumped in with NC as we played it in season 2. They are not the same thing. Not even close. Since Chrome left there is no question the DGA has been your league. The WiiGA is also your baby, as it should be with all the effort you put in. I really appreciate everything you do to help this league thrive. Always have, always will. So it makes sense that you are free to do whatever you want. And, of course, I and others will respect your decisions. I do not, however, appreciate wasting my time arguing the merits of something that has already been predetermined and will not even be heard. When that is the case, please let us all know that up front. It is unfortunate that valid concerns and ideas presented by those outside of "the council", regardless of their merits, have zero chance of even being considered. While I accept that way of doing things, don't expect me to respect the process.
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Post by hoghead on Mar 30, 2009 18:56:45 GMT -5
Honestly Twist, I didn't even really look at it until last night. I got a PM this morning and then I posted. As far as the poll is concerned, I wasn't going to say anything until I was absolutely sure of how I felt about it. Plus you need to read it one more time please. I never said that the AHO disabling would never be part of the game. I said it won't be part of the game as long as I am admin. I was just being honest which is what you want right? Look at all the changes going on right now. I promise you that there will be more changes in all areas including admins in the future. We have made 3 great selections in the new league and they are doing a great job. If you have noticed, my role has been reduced as of late. Snap has done an excellent job with the transition and I think all of you will be pleased with the new site. The guys have worked hard on it. The most difficult thing we do is make decisions concerning the direction we want to take the league in. Ask any admin, just ask them and they will tell you that it took 2 weeks of going back and forth, back and forth and discussion after discussion just to agree on the format. It can be time consuming and will wear on you. Could I have chimed right in as soon as the poll went up and crushed it? I guess so but I have never done that without a little thought. Members can poll on anything they want. I will run with it but I may not agree with every poll that is up. I think you are being a little tough on me Twist. The DGA is not my league as you say. It never has been. The WiiGA is not mine either. The members own it and we set it up to reflect just that. This job ain't easy but I do it because I believe in what this league is about. Buddah already knows this, but if it were not for the fact that Chrome went missing, I would have already stepped down. When the new league is up and stable, the admins will pick a replacement for me and I know they will make the right choices as they have already proven time after time. I will always be a member and that's what is important to me. I'm sorry you feel like you have wasted your time on the AHO poll. Please don't believe for one second that the opinions of our great members fall on deaf ears. It's just not true. I hope you believe me. Keep posting and give me your honest opinions as you always do. They do matter Twist. I'm listening.
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Post by Snapjack43 on Mar 30, 2009 20:11:45 GMT -5
I just want everyone to know that Hog didn't just put his pig foot down and make an executive decision concerning the AHO dilemna. This was a decision deliberated by the admins of the new site.
We really appreciate everyone's opinions in all matters and trust me, we spend a great deal of time mulling over all the possibilities and ramifications before making any decisions/changes in this league. We read the posts and talk one on one with members in the chatroom, your voices are heard. We are dedicated to making this new league the best and most enjoyable for ALL members involved and for the new members to come.
We have made two exciting and significant changes for next season, one of which will trememdously reduce the possibility of getting an AHO. Hog has brought up many good points concerning the AHO issues, please go back and read the posts. If we thought that dissabling the AHO's (if it even makes a difference) would make for more competitive gameplay, we would.
Let's all finish this season strong and look forward to bigger and better things to come in the WiiGA.
Snap out
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Post by NoChinDeluxe on Mar 30, 2009 22:10:37 GMT -5
Twist, you need to chill back, brother. No one said anything up front because a) You guys can post whatever polls you want, and no one ever said this was an official poll to determine anything. And b) nothing was predetermined. Like I said in my original post, we kept an eye on things to see where they went. We talked about it and hog made the final decision.
I stand by hog's decision and I also stand by my previous post when I said that you guys have plenty of opportunities to play with whatever settings you want, and the official rounds are only a small fraction of DGA activity. This isn't going to be forever. This is just a decision for WIIGA1. TW10 may negate this whole conversation, and if it doesn't, we'll obviously reconsider for future seasons.
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Post by putterrr on Mar 30, 2009 22:23:52 GMT -5
So let's see where the poll goes, and we'll go from there. Like I said in my original post, we kept an eye on things to see where they went. We were seeing where it was going and it seemed the direction was pretty clear. Maybe just not the direction you wanted it to go. Enough said.
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Post by NoChinDeluxe on Mar 30, 2009 22:50:15 GMT -5
I don't know what you're trying to accuse me of, putterrr. We did exactly that. We let the poll run for a little while and we saw where it went. We never said the poll would officially determine the results of anything.
I don't know why you guys are accusing us of double-crossing you or something. We never said either way what was determined, because quite frankly, it hadn't been determined yet. After discussion, hog made the final decision.
Enough said.
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Post by neil29679 on Mar 31, 2009 4:20:15 GMT -5
ok, i will start by saying i am a strong believer in removing ahos, however having read the many posts and opinions on the subject i think this should be the end of the matter. it is obvious to all this is not a straight forward matter and if the admins think that leaving things as they is for the better i for one respect that decision. i am a fairly new member and do not have the experience of previous seasons to make a totally informed opinion. i never expected the poll to make any official change in play and always thought i would have to wait in hope for tw10.
we should also remember that this season has functioned without any problems with ahos active. when they have been heavily present all involved have taken them on the chin and tried to laugh.
i suggest that everyone should stop debating the ifs, buts and maybes of ahos and concentrate on enjoying the playoffs and looking forward to the new WiiGA and what surprises it may bring.
lets not forget why we are here , to PLAY GOLF, PLAY GOLF and HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
finally can i just ask Hog why he is stepping down as admin, of course it is entirely up to you wether you chose to say why and would think no less of you if you chose not to. i am just curious and was somewhat surprised.
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Post by Wingnut on Mar 31, 2009 6:16:58 GMT -5
I was not going to chime in but I feel I have to say something.We must all remember this is a game which was designed for the younger generation.We adults just happen to like golf and this game gives us a good way to play golf and feel good about it.I for 1 could never shot the scores I shot here regardless of which ever setup we are playing.In real life my handicap is around 22.Now about the AHO'S.This was a very good poll for the simple fact a lot of members were able to express their views on the subject.Just keep in mind AHO'S are just 1 option in the game which can sway the outcome.Club Tuning,Putt Preview,Spin,andStandard Swing all have an effect on how games can be decided.As long as we know what the setup is we can adapt and figure out a way to compete with anyone.Everyone has their own idea how they would like the setup to be and they can play that setup anytime they so choice except when it is an official tourney.I have been in the league since season 1 and I feel those in charge of setting the conditions and the setups have done an exellent job.We have over 50 members now even though they do not compete in the tourneys.I see member participation getting better every season so I look forward to next season in hopes more members will be involved.Sorry for being long winded.
Wingnut out.
GOOD LUCK to all Match Play participatants.
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Post by Buddah on Mar 31, 2009 9:34:26 GMT -5
I've gotta say something after finding some info. that I didn't know before, but was afraid of it happening.
Seems one of our most beloved members was accused of not playing by the rules during NC play. I'm not naming any names but believe that any of you would be shocked if you would have even heard who was being accused. I was pissed when I found this out!! I don't like being pissed.
This is exactly why I am against turning off settings. This is also why I am backing Hog 100% on this matter! There is no way that we can police settings for each person, nor do we want to. This league was built on, and still is based on Great people bonding together and playing a game that we all enjoy. I don't want to see it get torn into factions, finger pointing, questioning peoples honor, or having members feel persecuted because of a stupid setting which really seems to make no difference if it is on of off.
Like NoChin said, you want to play without AHO's the do it. Play with any settings that you want outside of tourney play. I don't even care if you want to turn off your AHO's when your playing tourney rounds, but that is your choice and not one of the rules or settings for tournament play.
As far as I'm concerned this matter is closed, & I think everyone needs to go and read rule #1.
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Post by ian1983 on Mar 31, 2009 9:53:16 GMT -5
I think its cool how every time there has been a vote the vote has been lopsided and the admins decide in the opposite way of the vote. I find it a slap in the face really. When 75% of the community that CARES to vote votes one way (and probably at least 2 (12.5%) of the dissenters are admins) how are you listening?
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Post by NoChinDeluxe on Mar 31, 2009 10:05:03 GMT -5
Because out of approximately 50 members, 12 of you voted yes to remove AHO. What do we do about the other 35 members? We can't just assume they vote with you. That's the point here. We have to account for the entire membership, not just the few who elected to vote and speak their opinions here. As buddah said, if you want to play your official rounds with AHO turned off, you can feel free to without breaking the rules, but if your opponents want to play with them on, nothing is going to stop them. Feel free to have your playing party agree to jointly turn them off. But just be aware that nothing can be done if your opponents leave them on.
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Post by Whoever on Mar 31, 2009 11:29:10 GMT -5
Will someone grow a set and either lock this one or remove it.
It's done!
Continuing with this is not helping anyone.
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Post by TwistovF8 on Mar 31, 2009 12:24:02 GMT -5
Will someone grow a set and either lock this one or remove it. It's done! Continuing with this is not helping anyone. Kind of funny that someone who is afraid to sign their name would recommend that someone "grow a set." To my recollection, for as long as the DGA has been in existence there has only been one prior request to shut people up: I am going to echo Hog one more time, then I might recommend we lock up this thread since it is really off topic and our discussion is becoming circular. [snip]
Can we lock it now? I'll say the same thing now that I said then. "People arrive at this thread at different times. If they are motivated to post their views, their opinion should always be welcome. If anyone is bored with the opinions and/or observations expressed in this thread, or made uncomfortable by them, please don't feel obligated to read them." The answer then, as I am hopeful it will be now was The thread will not be locked unless it goes south. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. With all due respect, I still have something to say in this discussion. But I can't right now. It is really annoying when the job interferes with the DGA!
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Post by ian1983 on Mar 31, 2009 12:34:17 GMT -5
Still missing the point.
And the highest valid # you can have for members is 31 (highest # played in a tourney- tourney 1) and the lowest is 17, those that have finished all tourneys. I would guess that those active and will play in next season is in the 20s (somewhere in between). So 16 votes is a good sample, rather than the '35' who didn't vote. One of those is Chromedog, and we know he isn't around anymore.
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Post by hoghead on Mar 31, 2009 13:34:04 GMT -5
I will not lock this thread down. That is not why I am here or the other admins. As long as you don't go over the line, all threads will remain open. I have never closed another member's thread. The members may voice any concern, opinion through any avenue available on this site. I value each and every member here. I have gotten hundreds of PM's since the beginning. I never dismissed one of them. A post and a PM are handled entirely different. A post is a public document that is read by all members and apparently lots of guests. A PM is a private document sent to specified or all members. When a member PM's me, I treat them all the same. In confidence. Many of them already say "can you keep this between us?" When the NC play began, it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. That was short lived. I realize I am not very popular at the moment but I'm doing the best I can. Given all of the information and data collected over season II, I presented my case to the other admins. It was a strong case IMHO. They agreed. I didn't twist any arms. The new administration system is set up in such a way that no one has more power than the other. If I learned anything, it was how to safeguard the new site to insure that what happened at the DGA does not happen at the WiiGA. I will take a moment to answer a few things.
To our guest:
You are welcome to post here any time you want. In the past, I have let my temper get the best of me for guests trying to flame a post. Yours is not the case. It is a valid statement and deserves an answer. I believe the DGA was set up to ensure the integrity of fair play as it pertains to TW online. If I were to lock this thread for reasons other than completely offensive, I feel that I would be cracking the foundation so to speak. No one here is a professional speaker(I think?). Not everyone is going to say everything constructively and politely. The point is that they have an opinion and have the right to post it. Come and join us and you will have that right too, along with some really great games the best members you could ask for.
To ian1983:
We have communicated many times before. Both public and private. I respect your opinion just like I do with all members. I want to make sure you understand that the poll that was up was not an official poll. The decision to not disable the AHO was decided a month ago. We know how members feel about AHO's. We know they are not popular. I voted in that poll the other day. I voted to disable the AHO. That's right. I'm not just an admin. I am a member too. I think some people forget that. As I told Twist, we do listen. The decision we made is unpopular. I'm willing to take the flack for it.
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